Hope Dealer with José Rico
"Hope Dealer" is story-telling that focus on building connections and fostering a sense of belonging within our communities. Through personal narratives, historical reflections, and calls to action, Rico and his guests offer listeners a profound understanding of the power of love, community, and spiritual practice in overcoming systemic oppression and cultural erasure. Each episode is a testament to the enduring love and resilience that drive communities to resist, persevere, and thrive despite the challenges they face. You can join this community at https://joserico.org/
Hope Dealer with José Rico
Courage to Love: How Transformation Requires Us to Build Healing Communities
Where do we find hope when systems are breaking down around us? Dr. Dominica McBride offers a profound answer: in the courage to love and connect with each other.
Drawing from her family's dramatic journey from Haiti to America—her grandfather was a military leader who rescued people from the Parsley Massacre before fleeing Duvalier's regime—McBride reveals how historical trauma travels through generations. This ancestral understanding now shapes her revolutionary work as founder of the Become Center, where community psychology meets social justice.
The conversation explores her groundbreaking "Courage to Love" initiative in Chicago, which tackled infant mortality rates by building neighborhood connections. The results were transformative—bringing together residents who hadn't connected in forty years, creating what participants described as "nothing short of magical." This approach offers a powerful model for addressing collective trauma through community healing rather than individual interventions alone.
McBride shares scientific evidence that our bodies physically respond to both oppression and love. Research shows it takes five to six positive interactions to overcome just one negative experience, highlighting why building loving communities matters so much in our current climate of fear and division. As she puts it, "One way to disguise power is by keeping people separate."
Perhaps most striking is McBride's reframing of relationships: they aren't luxuries separate from survival—they are survival. When we recognize our interdependence, we discover our collective power to heal and transform our communities.
Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by current events or seeking practical ways to strengthen your community, this conversation offers both wisdom and actionable strategies for finding hope through connection. Subscribe now to join our community of hope dealers committed to building the future we deserve.
F.L.Y. L.I.B.R.E. a guide for healing and liberation can be purchased here: amzn.to/4iCzAAM
Get Dr. McBride's book "Becoming Changemakers" to explore more stories of resilience and community transformation. Connect with the Become Center at becomecenter.org or email dmcbride@becomecenter.org.
All right recording hey buenas familia. What is good I know what's good. What's good is that I'm back from a restful both is break where I was able to take a little bit of rest, get a little bit more resource, go deeper into my practice of meditation, of going inward and being in community, strengthening those relationships of people that I love and care about. So I hope that you, as you're listening now, as we are, we're still in winter and we are almost starting to see the us as the guest that you're about to listen to, returning from the solstice and being able to launch this next phase of Hope Dealer by speaking to and learning from my friend, dominica Beck-Bride. Dominica, we've been trying to get together for now months. You were one of the first people that I wanted on the podcast, and so I am so glad that you're a we were able to make it happen.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, me too, me too it means so much to like, to me to be here with you in particular. Um, I love you. So this is, this is awesome. And solstice. So what did you do on the solstice?
Speaker 1:or like to say oh to celebration was hibernate. I uh, I slept early, I woke up early. I uh, I made a commitment to do my meditation and my yoga every day. Um, and so now I'm, you know, I'm a lot more flexible and loose, um, and the quiet you's. You know, it's easier to be quiet and to go inward when everything around you is quiet, right, when the, when the trees are not blooming, when it's dark, even at, you know, seven o'clock in the morning, it's still dark.
Speaker 1:So, you know, just listening to our surroundings, I'm fortunate that able to be able to pay attention to surroundings and be able to act on the surroundings. Now, you know, as I do that, and I look out my window when I do my meditation, I still see people, my people, out there at five or six o'clock in the morning, working, going to work. So I know that it's a privilege that I could do this while they are out there hustling, and they don't have that opportunity to to rest Right and to restore. That's, that's, that's what I did. That's what I did.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness. Well, it does sound very restorative and definitely like, feel the privilege feast Right, Like. And then there's also like the difference between like privilege and a right Right that people don't know. Like we all have the right to rest and like plug for like rest is resistance. You know, that book really changed my thinking around rest, but we all have the right to rest and we need to like take that right Right Like we're. We're kind of conditioned to think that we that we don't all like have that right Right, Like that it's, that it is a privilege. But I mean we all, you especially work really hard. You do so much for the community, you do so much for your people, for family, for, you know, for all of us, and you deserve that. You deserve that they're right. And so do so many people who don't think that they do have to like, think that they have to be on the grind or conditioned right, Conditioned and forced to be on that grind, but to like to remember that we all have the right to rest.
Speaker 1:That's right and, as you see, dominica wants to jump right in, and let me first do a brief introduction of Dr Dominica McBride, who really is. She's with us today. She's a nationally recognized psychologist, a community healing center practitioner, the founder and the CEO of the Become Center, which is an incredible organization that I've partnered with and does incredible work, and has been doing this work not only in Chicago with community-based organizations in our neighborhoods that are really harmed by racialized capitalism, but also is there to help restore those relationships and provide agency to those peoples and those communities. And the author of a new book that came out, becoming Changemakers my boss is in this book, janice Terrell from Public Allies and incredible stories of resilience and joy, and that you will get to hear a little bit more. But just an overall incredible person week, but just an overall incredible person. And so, dominica, what I want to do is just to ask you how you are arriving today and if there's anything that you were able to release or mourn during this winter season.
Speaker 2:Oh, good question. Wow, I don't do that enough, like thinking about what I need to release and mourn and grieve. You know, I think one of the things that has to do with how I'm arriving to and thanks for the awesome introduction is just trying to stay centered. Like we talked before about our meditation practice, like you know, coming into January, I just made a commitment that I'm going to deepen in my meditation practice, especially with what's happening in our country, what's happening around the world, just knowing that the people who are in charge of our country now like, want us to be all over the place, right, want us to be paying attention to every which way they're pointing in that it's up to us to really stay centered. So I started a meditation practice and that keeps me grounded.
Speaker 2:So I do feel grounded at the same time as whiplash with everything that's going on, and I also feel very grateful, um, grateful for life, grateful for my family, my kids, um, our home, like, just staying in gratitude and uh, and then, what am I letting go of?
Speaker 2:It has to do with what we talked about just a couple minutes ago rest is resistance. I'm letting go of this idea that I need to do, do, do, do, do that I need to be on the grind, that I need to be doing something all the time, that I need to work really, really, really. I was working myself to sickness at the end of last year and and I was like, no, I can't, I can't get there. I need to focus on on balance. So I'm, I'm letting go of that part of myself that says I need to work myself to the bone, um and um, and I'm mourning that, even though, like, I'm still like in this process of letting go of that, of being willing to, like, look at my calendar and delete. You know, you know, just let go of certain things and be okay with with doing nothing sometimes, because that's that's what we need to quote unquote do you know to have balance?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I I hear that because I know that I interact with people in our line of work that not only have to do, do and do to pay the bills.
Speaker 1:Frankly, right to be able to not only support yourself but support the work that you're doing.
Speaker 1:But I think the thing that I find nagging in me and that was something that was very apparent in my household with my partner and our five kids is that that did not allow us to then build and continually see what's happening in our relationships, in our familiar relationships, not be able to explore what's happening in our familiar relationships, not being able to follow up with our personal and professional relationships, because that took time and we were so into the grind of the transactional stuff that you have to do, whether it's getting contracts or doing prospecting or so on and so forth, and the wake-up call for us right, and part of what I had to release was that, and part of what I had to release was that business was not going to be done as usual once after the election, and so, in order for us to center our relationships, we had to let go of this notion that things were going to be the same as they were before and that helped me really prioritize.
Speaker 1:So when I do my practice in the morning, I'm very clear with me that I'm preparing myself for an unknown of what's to happen. I don't do it for self-care per se, I do it to prepare for, in a sense, survival right. So it becomes more of a political communal act than a self-care act. And so that was a paradigm shift and what I've noticed again with my colleagues, with friends, that there's many of us that are still not there because we're still still have not been able to let go or ignore what happened and really how this moment in time and history is very different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's hard to let go of that, right. We've been so conditioned to be in that space of reactivity or of grind or of lack of holistic preparation in the way that you're talking about it, about meditation and yoga, and like these kinds of practices as preparation, because it prepares our mind, it prepares our body, it prepares our spirit for for resilience, for centeredness, for being able to like be in real relationship to being able to to think clearly, it regardless of whether it's like chaos or not to be able to see clearly and to to feel what we feel, so we can actually make like good decisions. You know, with everything that's happening, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's get a little bit more into you.
Speaker 1:Dominica, I, you know, I want people to get to know you a little bit better beyond. You know the book cover and the bio and I got to tell you the first time I learned about your family's history and, frankly, the journey from Haiti. The question that came to mind was I know that when your family came from Haiti, then they came to Michigan and the experience that you had, growing up in a predominantly white community, what I was interested in and what really the curiosity in me came was like what were the conditions and what were the experience family that you are aware of, that you are aware of while they were in Haiti and early on in their life, right In terms of how that experience, traditions or rituals really informed the journey of where you are now. I almost want to get the Michigan part the middle out, almost want to like get the Michigan part the middle out. I really am curious of the origin story of your grandparents and then if you see any connection or through lines, to the work that you're doing now?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. So my grandpa was the leader of the military of Haiti under the president, before Duvalier. So, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like right under the president as far as like their hierarchy of power, and he very, very like strong, very committed, very like dedicated man and he and it's also this is in the book like he led the Parsley, he led the rescue people from the Parsley Massacre and, and so, for those of you who might not be aware of the Parsley Massacre, who might be listening, the, the Parsley Massacre was part of the conflict between the Dominican Republic and Haiti and the president at the time, the Dominican Republic wanted to get rid of all Haitians within the Dominican Republic, and so on the border, people were very blended, right? You couldn't really tell who is Haitian, who is Dominican, and so the only way you could tell was the way that people pronounce parsley, the way they pronounce parsley, and so they would say like, okay, say parsley. When they say parsley the way the Haitians would say parsley, then they would get killed, like that's why they call it the parsley massacre. So my grandpa led the rescue mission. You know, amongst many other things, he was a writer. He owned a bookstore at one point in Haiti, and so there's already some of those through lines. But the conditions that led them to come here was the rising violence in Haiti. So when Duvalier came, tried to come into power which he ultimately did come into power but he came in and he threatened everybody that was with the previous regime, including my grandfather, including my grandmother.
Speaker 2:My grandmother is originally from France. Moved to Haiti was actually. That's another story. I'll get to that in a second. How she came to Haiti, but she owned a little French restaurant on a hill in Port-au-Prince and they came to her restaurant and they said when Duvalier becomes president, we're coming for you.
Speaker 2:And my grandmother, her French self, was like whatever, get out of here, he's like become president. And three weeks later she hears on the radio Duvalier president. And she's like we gotta go to the America. On the radio, duvalier president. And she's like we got to go to the America. So she was like okay, let's go refuge. And my grandpa was actually like no, you know, I'm not going, like I'm staying, they're not going to run me out.
Speaker 2:And so my grandpa stayed, my grandpa, my grandma like it shifted and my grandpa stayed and um, uh and he um, but eventually, like they, they kept threatening him and threatening him with like physical violence and he eventually came to the united states too. So they came like in violence but, um, because of the, the political and the the literal, like what was happening on the ground, the violence that was happening, so they came and my mom, like, witnessed a lot of that too, and so she had memories, you know, of that. Those are some of her earliest traumas um was like community violence, like in Haiti and, and you know, coming to this country. My grandma also, like, came from like traumatic background because my her dad, my great grandfather, actually kidnapped her from away from her mother and set her on a ship to Haiti from France so that her mother would not have her. So my grandma didn't meet her mom until she was like 40 years old.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so there's a lot of trauma like in my family's history which influenced how they just experienced life, of course, and their trajectory from country to country, right, and eventually coming here to the United States. But even like starting over, you know, like like they had to start completely over here, you know, growing up poor because of the transition, working their way up to like survive and my mom having to like learn, learn a new language, like learn a new culture, you know, navigate, all of that but they made it. I mean, like my grandpa ended up doing tutoring, like tutoring people in French, you know, like he just has a love for like language, for books, for writing, you know that kind of deepened or sustained through all of the immigration, all of the shifts and changes. So as far as how that influences my work now, it's definitely like responding to trauma, like there's a healing focus, there's an explicit healing focus for community healing and like embedding the healing not only one-to-one and I'm a psychologist, I used to be a not only one-to-one and I'm a psychologist.
Speaker 2:I used to be a therapist doing like one-to-one therapy, family therapy, couples therapy, but now it's really like seeing the psychological practices on the community level and applying that to like groups of people or processes or programs. So it's like community psychology lens and so with with that, like you know, what does it mean to heal in community and what does it mean to collectively heal and how does that look like? What interventions are needed for that? Like what's the? What's the data, that practices, the knowledge, you know, the culture shifts that are needed for that right, because even though we're in a very different country, you know the culture shifts that are needed for that right, because, even though we're in a very different country, you know.
Speaker 2:Then then, hey, we're still dealing with like community violence, they're still dealing with a lot of trauma, collective trauma, especially now, like with all of this craziness, and also like through COVID, right, and so there's there's a lot of that frame that comes into the work around healing, around how do we heal collectively, how is it embedded in community?
Speaker 2:And then also like contextually, like paying attention to the context in the community work, just knowing that this level of like socio-political dynamics deeply affects people on the ground, it deeply affects our lives and we need to like know how that, how that does affect our lives and and tend to it. You know whether whether it's through advocacy or activism or was through people's own like healing journey, but knowing that not just like interpersonal trauma or or individual like trauma influences us, but like the trauma of the collective, just as like as deep impacts, just like you know. But like the trauma of the collective just has like as deep impacts, just like you know, when the reason why my family came to this country right, like it was because of that, like collective sociopolitical context that then traumatized them Right, which led to them to to find refuge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, and thank you for for explaining it that way. You know, I asked that question because last year I went on a fellowship to Mexico with a group of Mexicans in the arts to develop relationships between Mexican leaders in Mexico and then Mexican leaders here in the United States, and there was a curandero there and one of the questions that she asked was Think about your family and what happened to your family about 100 years ago. Think about it, write about it. And you know she was like. My belief is that that trauma and that resilience that happened to your grandparents it's something that is still carried with you and it's something that is actually informs how you respond to this moment in time.
Speaker 1:States for the World War II effort. So he was contracted by the Department of Commerce, came to the States, picked cotton and fruit in California and then he was one of the people that were deported. One million Mexicans were deported in Operation Webpack deported. One million Mexicans were deported in Operation Webpack. But 100 years ago what happened was that the US threatened to invade Mexico and so when my grandfather was a child, the threat of US invasion loomed at large within the Mexican society.
Speaker 1:And so one of his responses and the responses of many Mexicans were if that happens, we still need to provide for our family, and that was one of the reasons a lot of Mexicans came to the United States in the 40s and then my father followed after my grandfather and came to Chicago in the 70s.
Speaker 1:But it was from that threat that was felt of another US invasion, because, remember, that would have been the second US invasion, where the first US invasion resulted in the occupation and theft of 50% of Mexican territory, right. So that one, that trauma of the uncertainty and the threat of an invasion. But then, secondly, you know, to your you know, kind of similar to what you're saying, is that then my parents became, and my grandfather, one of the most resourceful and resilient people I ever got, I ever met, I ever known, so you know, like I could fix anything in the house right like you know, you know, you know Ceci is like you are a Mexican and and I could fix stuff and and also I always I'm very well attuned when people feel like they don't belong and try to create a space of belonging.
Speaker 1:Create a space of belonging because my grandfather and my father, when they came to this country, were always felt like they did not belong and were always under threat of deportation or criminalization. So that grandparent experience that like kind of a hundred year experience I believe that actually has something is still within us and what we're doing and how we're responding has something to do with what we're doing right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree, and there's research to back that up too. But that's an amazing story from, like the experience that they had in Mexico which drove or drove them here, and then how it's showing up for you today drove them here and then how it's showing up for you today. And so there's like epigenetics, right, like the study of epigenetics just proves that point right. Like if we have, like seven generations ago, go like experience a famine, then those people who are connected to those people who experienced the famine have higher rates of diabetes. You know, like there's actually physiological changes in their ancestors or those those people who are from those ancestors, right, and so like the same goes for, like behavior and trauma and you know, other types of experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally, I totally see that and feel that and there's times when I have been connected to my pain in ways that I know is not connected to this life. You know, like some of the pain feels like it's very old, old pain, right, like I'm feeling like what my grandmother felt, you know, I'm feeling like my great grandmother.
Speaker 1:you know I'm feeling like when do you feel that? How does that show up for you?
Speaker 2:it's very hard to put into words, it's very, but I can actually feel in in places in my body and when I like, okay, I can like when I touch that spot, that's like like 10, and I don't mean like physically touch that spot, but when I emotionally touch that spot, but that is within, you know, my, my physical being, my physical self, like it's very tender, it's, it's raw, but it's also like it's hard for me to put into words, but I could tell it's connected across space and time to put into words, but I could tell it's connected across space and time, right, like it's not only my pain but it's, it's, it's like located in my body.
Speaker 2:If you've ever done well, I mean you're, you're a yogi, you know like when, when you're doing yoga and you do certain positions, it unlocks emotions, right, like, like for me, it's in my hips and when I do, like the pigeon pose, which is very much like opening the hips, like oh, I'm boohooing on the ground, I just cry. You don't know why, you know, but just tears are coming out of me, like, ok, I need to release, right, it's, it's stored there but like our cells, just like an epigenetics, it like stores the knowledge and material and experiences from the previous generations and passes that on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we call that Indian knowledge, indigenous knowledge. Yeah, like indigenous knowledge, we just know. We just know. Going back to what you mentioned earlier about this moment in time, going back to what you mentioned earlier about this moment in time, I'm very curious you know right now, with this moment in time that we're living through, right now.
Speaker 2:So, like, when people say, like, talk about like history repeats itself, you know, I, I think humanity experiences cycles and and those cycles are there to teach us different lessons, right, and I also think about destruction and creation and how, how, like collective suffering and suffering period, then, like, can give way to new ways of thinking, new ways of being, like growth, right, either suffering is going to destroy us or it's going to force us to create something different, right, and I feel like you know that's that happens on an individual level, but it also happens on a collective level, and we're in this time of destruction, like, collectively, obviously, like policies, institutions are being literally destroyed right now, on purpose, strategically or not so strategically, the swipe of a pen gone right, and so what that calls for us who are experiencing the suffering because of it, like it's causing us, or I should say calling us, to think about. Like, what do we need to create? Right, like this structure can breed creation. And so, like, what is it that we need to create collectively? That is, for us, a lot of these systems and policies and structures, like, while they might look, like they might be for us, like the education, you know, like public safety, police. All of that might look like even healthcare.
Speaker 2:Right, it might look like they're for our well-being, but there's elements, like intrinsic elements, in a lot of these systems that are built into this country, that are destructive. They are not for our will, they're antithetical to our wellbeing. Right and for a system, like the nature of a system, is to perpetuate itself, and so those systems are going to perpetuate their original intent, regardless of their change or not. Right it's, and so to let them go right. We don't want to like to be destroyed like this, but but like, like it's calling us into, like what can we create? That is from its root, it's for us, it's for us, it's by us, we, it's for our well-being, you know.
Speaker 1:So I feel like it's a time like calling us into creation, like as we're saying this and I think you, I'm glad that you have a very clear vision of what it could mean for us right Versus wallowing in, how terrible things are and how everything because they are right. Things are chaotic and uncertain and terrible, but you have this clear vision, I'm assuming, because of just the deep work that you've been doing with community members and with organizations in trying to influence the systems that are not necessarily able to provide or be responsive to the real needs of people. I'm curious for you to give me an example or a story about a project or a healing practice that emerged and came out of the work that you've done in communities that really could show you the possibility of what we could create that's different from the systems that we have right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so one is a collaborative that we're a part of called Courage to Love, and it's all about I love that name. Yeah, it's a great name right Courage to Love. We might as well just keep saying that Courage to Love, Courage to Love. That'll help us in this time.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it came from a report in like I forget it was like 2005, but around infant mortality, and it was talking about how there's the disparity, like, between black and white moms and babies. Right, Baby, black babies die at a much higher rate, um, within their first year than than white babies, and they're sort of like, okay, what's the reason for that? Why? Why are we seeing that? Um, and when the research looked at everything equal right, equal education, equal socioeconomic status, equal pre prenatal care and resources when everything was equal, we still saw a disparity. It's like, wait, everything is equal. Why are we still seeing this disparity?
Speaker 2:And the finding was that we're still seeing a disparity because of the overarching impact of the context of oppression, right, the context of oppression, of racism, of discrimination and its effects on the body. And so if we're in an environment that is unkind, if we're in an environment that's oppressive, if we're in an environment that has these messages and even flat out policies that keep people in a certain place, right then, or devalue or dehumanize people, like we, our bodies feel it. You know it's uh, kind of related to like what we're talking about before, but like, our, our bodies experience it and even like, and this is just like one micro example of this. Like you have a couple and um one person uh, gives a lot of like, scowling, like looks at the other person. The other person gets sick more often, right, like it's it's the energy right.
Speaker 2:It's the, it's the energy. It's like we are built to be social, right, we're, we're social creatures and our bodies are, are operate that way, to be social creatures. And so when we are pushed out of a group, you know whether it's like you're pushed out of a relationship or you're pushed out of our group. Our physiology then reacts to that Right, and a lot of times it reacts to that in like negative ways, Right, when it's a negative interaction, and even like the opposite, the positive. So people like breast cancer patients, when they received a call from a nurse, just 20 minutes, 20 minute call from a nurse just checking on them, hey, how you doing Once a week, they had better prognosis than those that did it. Right, the simple act of being loved, right, of being cared for just 20 minutes once a week, like shifted how their body responded, you know to to that disease. So the same goes for infant mortality right, like the mother is carrying the infant and the infant is going to to the infant's development, is going to react to like how healthy or not you know the the mom is. And so we're in an environment where that the person we can call this country, you know, or or the practices, culture around us, a person. They're scowling at us, you know, they're scowling at us, they're calling us names, all that. Our bodies are going to react to that, right, and so we're like you have a whole group of people. That's like in this environment where the bodies are reacting to this, you know, in these ways. And then, of course, like the baby, then is is compromised, but the, when they study, like the courage to love, what they found was part of the antidote was love. That's like God's courage to love, right, part of the antidote. Like I said with the breast cancer patients, right, the antidote was care, was love, and so love and care helps to strengthen our bodies. So the intervention or the collaborative that we're a part of with the Courage to Love is all about like, how do we build loving assets around moms, around babies, around families, right, so that they can be strong, you know, holistically, around babies, around families, right, so that they can be strong, you know, whole, holistically, holistically strong, and so part of it, um, we did this in Auburn, gresham, with the Southside community, um, here in Chicago and as you know, and um, and in this we uh part of what we did, we first asked people like you know why, in this particular community had relatively high rates of infant mortality. At the time it was like the third highest. Now it's like the fifth highest in mortality rate in Chicago of all 77 communities.
Speaker 2:And so we asked parents, caregivers, you know why is it like, why we see this, this dynamic here, you know why do you think? What are you, what are the stressors? And from the basic stressors of like finances, you know, you know experiencing of, of like perception of violence, things like that, it was isolation from neighbors that was like stressful and concerning right, isolation. We get to that again like being pushed out, like socially Right, but they're talking about even in their community. They had once felt like a very close-knit community that had been dissolved over time. A lot of it was sociopolitical, like you know, interferences dissolving the social fabric of the neighborhood, but they had. That was one of the stressors.
Speaker 2:And so what we did as a collaborative this was the collaborative organizations of leaders, communities, residents in this. So what we did was say like, ok, we're going to to bring together residents to develop out interventions on their blocks around social cohesion, like how do we build more, more relationships, more cohesion, like you know, on the blocks, where people are more connected. And so, over the course of a year, we met and we built beloved community, even with each other. We talked about our own trauma, our own experiences, our own healing, the way we, the way we show up as leaders, the way we don't show up as leaders what does love mean to us? You know how? How does how does that interact? What do we appreciate about? Appreciate about each other? Right, we really created, like you know, beloved community, like in in the group, and then, through the training that that we did together, the people who are a part of it went out and they created these social code, these like, like you know, moments or or you know intervention last you, dominica, can you?
Speaker 2:hear me.
Speaker 1:Can you hear me, Dominica?
Speaker 2:Hey, dominica. So, um, so they came together and they developed social, the intervention for social cohesion like to build more relationships on their blocks, and so one group um, they were actually part of a black club that had been going for 40 years, but they decided to be a part of this to do more social cohesion focus work, and they said that they went out and they did this. They got their block together and they engaged neighbors in ways that they hadn't before and they said that they moved as a unit in ways that they had never done before in all 40 years. There's a woman that had been a part of it for 40 years and she said we've never moved like this. We've never moved together like this in the same direction, the same time, you know as cohesively.
Speaker 2:And then they were able to get people like young, old, from different walks of life out on their out on their block in relationship, and even one woman who hadn't been outside of her house for two years, and even one woman who hadn't been outside of her house for two years. They were able to get her out in the mix of things you know in relationship, interacting. It was beautiful and the woman who had been a part of this for like 40 years. She said it was nothing short of magical, like what they did, how they came together, what they were able to do did how they came together, what they were able to do.
Speaker 2:Another group they came and they engaged a hundred families you know together to come together in like with the, in like almost like a family reunion, although they weren't they weren't technically family members, but they came together like in connection and fun, in just like this commitment towards a relationship and like uplifting the family. So it was beautiful. But they, like, they designed these, these interventions, these moments, these experiences and this. It had like this beautiful ripple effect.
Speaker 1:And then now we're doing Dominica, but it seems like you have the antidote you created with these neighbors, in these communities, the antidote to the fear and the divisiveness and the inaction that so many people are experiencing. The inaction that so many people are experiencing. I mean, it seems like the answer is there, right, the courage to love is there. My question is like why is that so hard to maintain, to maintain, and what can we do? Or what should we? How should we think about not only starting that work but being able to maintain that work, to be able to make it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so one of the reasons why it's hard to maintain like, the sense of like, one of the reasons why it's hard to maintain like the sense of, like, love of connection, is that we are bombarded with negative messages. We're invited these messages to be afraid that things are scarce, to fear your neighbor, you know, to fear like this group that might be different than you in some way. Right, and a lot of it is false. It's just like fear mongering and propaganda and lies and the and that's a way for people to get power, right, like when a group or groups cannot come together. Like we're much more powerful together than we are apart, right, you look at just anything, a forest, whatever. It's much more powerful, like when it's connected to other things, other beings, and so a one way to maintain or to disguise power is by keeping people separate. And the way the brain works, which is interesting, is that it like absorbs negative, right, like it absorbs things that are like based on fear or negativity, and it could, just as a protective mechanism, right, so it's extra sensitive to the negative to protect itself as a body, right, it wants to survive, and so it takes five to six positives to overcome one negative, right, like, you have one negative, it takes five to six positives, and what are we unbombarded with in the media and the news and movies? Yeah, just bad shit, and like, there's like no counter positive, right, and so that's. It makes it really difficult to keep on doing this work when, like, we're getting so many messages about fear, which is already triggering things that are never like our brains are naturally like trying to look out for, like, but things to fear, things that are never like our brains are naturally like trying to look out for, like, put things to fear even if they're not real. Right, like our body still thinks like, oh, there's something new to fear, and so we have to overcome that, like through relationship. Right, like, you know, just being super, super committed and you said this earlier right, like you're you to be in relationship with people and to put that as a higher priority, and so that's part of what we need to do is, sort of like, putting each other as a high priority on our list.
Speaker 2:We often think that relationships are different than survival. Right, like, survival is over here and we need to work really hard, we need to pay our bills, we need to get the money for food, all of that and then relationships are over here. But really, like, the body says no, we need relationships to survive, so we need to quickly put those together. Like you know, in order to survive and especially in order to thrive, we need each other, we need relationships, and so deepening into that and committing to that as a priority is huge, to that, and committing to that as a priority is huge. Committing to relationship, committing to love, you know, like let's, like, yeah, let's have the courage to love and commit to it.
Speaker 1:You know, in our everyday practice, yeah, I love the line I wrote it down. You know, one way to disguise power is by separating us. Right, that is. That is beautiful, I think, truth-telling of one recognizing that we have power and when we're together in relationship, we become even more powerful. But how we disguise it is by putting out negative messages and otherizing to brain think we're protecting ourselves, but we're in actuality, making ourselves more vulnerable, right, and one of the things Right.
Speaker 1:Right, that's what's happening and one of the things that I think about right now.
Speaker 1:You know, as we think and you said earlier, history, right, we're in this moment in time where you can look at different times in the history of this country, where, whether it's what was done during the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation and birthright citizenship to enslaved African Americans, and then the backlash against Reconstruction, jim Crow, and then now, you know, after the 1619 and some of the rights that started to be exercised, now we see this incredible backlash, white identity politics and extremists that have a real possibility of not only rolling back civil rights but actually causing physical and societal harm against people.
Speaker 1:If we protest, right, if we defend ourselves, if we respond, respond collectively to heal ourselves in this collective trauma.
Speaker 1:So for me, you know, the question that I've been grappling with in this area, in this moment in history, is like how can we engage people that have been benefiting from systems of oppression to be able to engage in their own healing during this time? Right, because if we have time and time again, if we see people like the Proud Boys and all of these other folks that if you look, look at them and you probably could do a pretty good psychological profile on that right. Like there's no love at home, like there's some a lot of inadequate inadequacy that they're experiencing, they probably don't have positive bonding relationships with people that they were supposed to. So so how do we engage those individuals and I'm not saying necessarily the Proud Boys, but people that benefit from this to be able to understand that being in relationship with those that including themselves right, because they've been traumatized but they've just been benefiting from a system of oppression how there is a bond and a benefit for them to be a part of these loving communities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really important question Like so many people should be grappling with right now, right, because there's like so much more that that can, should and does like bring us together than you know, than like separates us. And so I grew up in a predominantly white rural town in Michigan, and so my heart is with people who are, like you know, displaced, marginalized in any way, whether it's by color, whether it's by sexuality, whether it's by class, you know, whether it's by region, you know, like I'm with people that, like, have been like outcast or displaced or, you know, shut out from society in some way. And you know, whether it's my region, you know, like I'm with people that, like, have been like outcasts or displaced or, you know, shut out from society in some way. And you know, and growing up in in white rural America, um, there's a lot of like poor white people that are shut out, right, and and that are are harmed in many ways by society. And you know, know, interpersonally, of course. And with that, I think part of it is for many of them to see that they're not actually benefiting, like they're benefiting in some ways, right, they're not as downtrodden as like Black people are, like you know, immigrants are right now, or you know, like they don't have to deal with.
Speaker 2:These are, like you know, immigrants are right now, or you know, like they don't have to deal with these like added hurdles in society, but there's still, you know, these hidden, invisible ways that they're kept down, and I'm thinking of speaking of, like you know, poor white people in particular, right now. But there's other, you know other ways of being, like, oppressed that are invisible right now, and I think that that so many of them need to see that there there are ways that they are being being harmed by the, the overall, like structure, by society. You know, in ways that they don't necessarily like, acknowledge, but are so real to their day to day, to their, to their children, to the schools, to, like you know, how they're able to, to survive and make money and like all of that, like their whole livelihood is influenced by this, and it's it's blamed on black people or on immigrants, or you know, whatever it's blamed, like though these people are your problem. No, these people are not your problem. The people that are saying these people are your problem are your problem. You know, even though they might look like you, they're still your problem, you know. And so in being able to, like, start to take the veil off and see that how this game is being played by them, like the game being played, like, oh, these people are different, they're the problem. If only they were not here then your life would be great. No, no, your life is actually going to get worse if we're not here, you know.
Speaker 2:And so I think part of it is like seeing these connections and commonalities and experience and struggle and pain, and, like this human experience in this country, like seeing across these quote unquote lines, right, which have been been created, and to to really come together with some, like, common goals that benefit all of our communities, right, and so I feel like that's one of the things that we need to do in order to heal across, for them to heal, you know, and for us to be able to galvanize that collective power, to be able to move in ways that benefit all of us.
Speaker 2:All of us that have, like, been kept out of certain rooms, all of us who have been marginalized, all of us who have been, like you know, struggling in ways that we don't need to struggle, right, there's ways that we need to struggle as humans that are just part of being human, right, like you know, like the growth process, they're always going to be growing brains, there's always going to be pregnant, childbirth, there's always going to be breakups. There's always going to be like these ways that we struggle because we're just human, but then there's all these added ways that we're struggling, that we don't have to struggle, but there these struggles are put in our way in order for other people to feel more powerful, right, like, to make more money, to feel, feel better about themselves. So they put these arbitrary struggles in the way, right, and for them to be able to see these arbitrary struggles and why they're there and how they're harmed by them, just like you know, so many of us, so many others are also harmed from it.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. That's right. I think you know, as I hear you speaking, it just becomes so apparent that the truth telling that needs to be told. At this moment, the majority of truth is actually going to sink in and, unfortunately, hopefully it's not when other benefits are being taken away and their standard of living gets drops dramatically, because my guess is that they're going to continue to blame you know, the other versus the people that right now are in charge of those areas. So my last question for you is you know, as you know, this is called Hope Dealer and I want to share what's giving me hope right now, and we'd love for you to share what is it and, even though we are in that dark times, what's giving you hope and what's giving me hope right now. You know, ever since um, the new year, started, um in my community and across the country, I've been just starting to see um, now that the veil come off, as you, as you said, people really looking at instead of resisting, just resisting. It's about building right. So building mutual aid networks again, building ice watches and communities of care, building and connecting with friends and family, just on a check-in basis, even if it's just a text message regularly to see how people are doing, being able to see the role that relationships, community and response how important those things are, and that's what's giving me hope, how important those things are and that's what's given me hope. And one of the areas that I just get inspiration from is hearing the stories of just people and leaders who have been doing this for a long time and those that just made you know an incredible commitment to lift up that work. So some of those people are in your book, Becoming Changemakers and just the way that you know, the leaders that you've interviewed and those that are in our communities that are doing this work, and those that are in our communities that are doing this work. For me, that's what's giving me hope that we're focusing on building and that we're focusing on how we could let go of previous beats if we had any and really focus on repairing the relationships and building stronger relationships in our lives. So what's giving you hope right now, Dominique?
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, yeah, similarly, yeah, a lot of that gives me a lot of hope too. Yeah, the women in the book have been doing amazing work in their history currently. How they, what they've survived and how they continue to have resilience and how they continue to create more community resilience, um, through their story. So their stories definitely give me a lot of hope, um, from the past and to the future.
Speaker 2:Um, personally, my kids give me a lot of hope. Like you know, regardless of what's happening on the news around us. You know they're still like laughing and playing, and you know sibling having little sibling rivalries, and you know they're still like laughing and playing and you know sibling having little sibling rivalries, and you know like it's still like kid time, you know. And so that gives me a lot of joy, which also, like fuels my hope.
Speaker 2:And then we're working with this group in Auburn, gresham. It's a group of residents leaders coming together to innovate, to innovate a new system, and in this case it's about youth, and they decided to just build a system of social development and how to create these structures and practices around young people that really rebuild the village. So we have, so young people are connected in ways that they need to be connected for every need and also for their own potential and leadership. And you know, thriving, you know as a young person to an adult. So they're brilliant, like what they what the ideas that they come up with, the drive that they have, the commitment that they have to the community. So that's a lot of hope. That gives me hope on a regular basis too.
Speaker 1:And, finally, what gives me hope is that you're out there doing this work and, again, I firmly believe that the work that you're doing with communities is the antidote to what we need right now. So if we have listeners that want to reach out to you, we'll put the book link on the show notes of how can they reach out to you and the Become Center to be able to partner with you in their project or learning about your projects, so we could continue to rebuild the future that we deserve and that we believe will help us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so our website is becomecenterorg and my email address is dmcbride at becomecenterorg. So, yeah, feel free to shoot me a note and and to, um, yeah, visit our webpage, sign up for our newsletter. We also have an instagram linkedin. Uh, you can follow us there. Be sure to buy the book, because it there's a lot of hope. There's a lot of hope dealing in that book with the stories from from these women about be becoming change makers. Um, and uh, yeah, look forward to hearing from anybody who wants to chat.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you again, dominica. I really really appreciate this for your time. Now I'm going to be having a cheesy grin in my face all day. My day just started, but usually by the end of the day you're like beat down. So I think today is going to be a little bit different because of our conversation. Good to see you again and looking forward to seeing you again.
Speaker 2:You me too, me too. You give me a lot of hope as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you.